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Post by Rer on Feb 26, 2010 23:14:56 GMT -5
Once you go black (robes) you never go back?
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Winin
Deathbringer
01/2004 DAoC
[insert witicism here]
Posts: 6,045
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Post by Winin on Feb 27, 2010 0:37:40 GMT -5
I don't want to be a Sith for my 'main'. Neither did Anakin. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
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Dachartach
Spell Weaver
Aionic SWTOR Reliant
AHHH HAHH HAHH! I WAS BO'N AN' RAISED IN A BRIAR PATCH!
Posts: 921
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Post by Dachartach on Mar 2, 2010 15:36:33 GMT -5
Ok, we can watch BioWare ramble on about morality in their games, and retconn their previous works and posts. I personally think that the morality of the BioWare, and the Obsidian, KOTOR games were great at dealing with "good" and "evil." Many people have trouble really separating the Jedi from "good" or the Sith from "evil." Lucas himself even confessed to portraying the two sides distinctly and clearly in A New Hope. In practice, even in the Holy Trilogy, things were never so cut and dried.
BioWare has stated that there will be no neutral faction, and you will not have the option of being a neutral character, that the war will affect everyone, or at least all the player characters. They've also stated that your character may have the option of trying to find a way to reform the Empire, or to cope with it. Hmm. To me this sounds like they're not sure which way to go, and that they're getting some wires crossed.
Suffice it to say, not every Sith action is an inherently evil one, nor is everything the Jedi do supergood and getting better. The Jedi are not all saints (not all the time anyway), and the Sith are not all monsters (again, not always). The heroes of both factions will do what they do for their own reasons, just as all people do. I have confidence that BioWare will continue to write compelling stories and characters, not reverting to some cardboard Saturday morning cartoon "villains."
A plague on both your houses!
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Post by Takzenen on Mar 2, 2010 17:05:57 GMT -5
Well, it never has been really all that beneficial to be a "grey" Jedi in either of the KOTOR games, so that doesn't surprise me too much. While I agree with you about the Jedi not always being good, I think the Sith are pretty inherently evil. Well, at least the ideological Sith, I don't believe there are any true Sith anymore in any of the Star Wars universes, but I could be wrong.
Sure, there's different flavors of them, however their never ending pursuit to more and more power seems to eventually lead them into the more "evil" directions
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Dachartach
Spell Weaver
Aionic SWTOR Reliant
AHHH HAHH HAHH! I WAS BO'N AN' RAISED IN A BRIAR PATCH!
Posts: 921
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Post by Dachartach on Mar 3, 2010 16:55:14 GMT -5
The Sith aren't really all that different from the Jedi, I would consider them more honest and less smug. They both use the force, on which they are completely dependent, and have few if any abilities or skills without it.
I have always seen the Sith as brethren to Nietzchean philosophy- they use their will to power in an effort to leash the Force to their own will, and enForce (if you will) their own order. Even their constant internal power struggles serve as a means to the end of increasing the overall power of their religious sect and, in the universe of the Old Republic, their nation.
Good and evil are far more nebulous and subjective than most people, including Georgie himself, often realize. I would suggest playing through, or at least finding the dialogue lists, of the KOTOR games, including the second one. Though it was unfinished, there was a great deal of explanation from the Sith viewpoint, through Kreia. She would often chastise me for senseless and random acts of kindness OR violence, with genuinely engaging reasons behind her criticism.
Suffice it to say that every Jedi being a shiny Dudley DoRight, and all Sith being mustache-twirling Dirk Dastardly, is not a very realistic portrayal of sentient beings. BioWare made sure to include these aspects in the characters of KOTOR, and Obsidian did a similar job in KOTOR2; I hope they will continue these sorts of morally challenging storytelling elements in the MMO.
There are qualities of the human mind which have evolved over millenia, built around avoiding and containing hostility. I am a former member of the Envoy Corps; I don't have those restrictions anymore.
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Post by Takzenen on Mar 3, 2010 17:14:01 GMT -5
I had forgotten that about Kreia, thinking about it now it actually frustrated me because it just seemed like at the time no matter what I did she would chastise you
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Dachartach
Spell Weaver
Aionic SWTOR Reliant
AHHH HAHH HAHH! I WAS BO'N AN' RAISED IN A BRIAR PATCH!
Posts: 921
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Post by Dachartach on Mar 3, 2010 17:29:45 GMT -5
Yep, that's pretty much it. If you agreed with her afterwards and thanked her for her teaching, that got you some influence and maybe a dark side point. The gist of it was that if you run around helping people all the time, you actually rob them of their chances to improve themselves; if this is no problem for you, then continue, take these opportunities to improve yourself at the cost of others.
As an example from teaching, I often had the option of how to help a troubled student (with schoolwork). I can either give them the answer, or give oblique advice and hints to help them get the information themselves. Which do you think was more effective?
Morality is a tricky beast, very subjective, that is, dependent on the observer. BioWare has been good about presenting it as such in many of their works so far, and that's a trend I hope continues.
I bite my thumb sir, but I do not bite my thumb at YOU, sir!
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Post by Takzenen on Mar 3, 2010 18:13:53 GMT -5
Very true
And you trying to say something with that quote, buddy? /macho
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Dachartach
Spell Weaver
Aionic SWTOR Reliant
AHHH HAHH HAHH! I WAS BO'N AN' RAISED IN A BRIAR PATCH!
Posts: 921
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Post by Dachartach on Mar 5, 2010 13:40:46 GMT -5
Nah, my quotes, as you may have noticed, rarely have anything to do with my posts, they're completely random, usually just whatever I'm thinking of at the time. For that one, I was just remembering how much of a badass Tybalt was, that poor ol' Benvolio was scared shitless of him. And the Prince of Cats was in turn terrified of Mercutio. Loves me some Shakespeare.
Damn, I hope The Old Republic is good; I'm still waiting for Aion to come back hot after the summer. Once TOR releases, unless it's a complete turkey, that's where I'll be.
This place is a madhouse! A MADHOUSE!
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Aberrant
Ragewalker
Core 03/2003 DAoC Founding Member Former Councilor
twitter : Jabberant
Posts: 3,585
Steam ID: Jabberant
Origin ID: Aberrant
BattleTag: Jabberant#1268
Xbox GamerTag: Jabberant
PSN ID: Aberrant
Game Center: Aberrant
Minecraft: Jabberant
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Post by Aberrant on Mar 5, 2010 19:47:32 GMT -5
I think that is cool.
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